Health officials have still not agreed to have fetuses certified as legally dead before they are used in research experiments, the League for Life of Manitoba said yesterday.

And poor recording practices make it impossible to verify that 200 fetuses used in experiments from 1973 to 1975 were all truly dead and not killed by testing procedures, said League executive member Pat Soenen.

"We think there's an infraction of the Vital Statistics Act, the legislation which could prevent these types of abuses," Soenen said, "We'll be pursuing that with the attorney-general's office."

Soenen said she and League president Anne Desilets received "no firm commitments" during a closed-door meeting with officials of the Manitoba Health Services Commission (MHSC), the attorney-general's department, Health Sciences Centre, the U of M medical school and the provincial health department.

Asked by a reporter if the meeting would be open to the media, Health Sciences Centre president Peter Swerhone said he would leave if that happened.

"I won't agree with it," he said. "I won't sit in. It's not my meeting and I'm waiting to see what it's about. But if it's open to the press, I won't attend."

No commitment

Desilets said later that Swerhone offered few comments at the meeting and simply told the League to take its concerns to the attorney-general's department.

Although health officials said no fetal experiments are now under way, they made no commitment to halt further tests until guidelines and monitoring procedures are introduced, Soenen said.

Dr. Terry Jolly, president of the Manitoba Physicians for Life, said MHSC director Reg Edwards promised to examine six guidelines for verifying fetal death proposed by his group.

But Edwards said the MHSC has no power to legislate the changes and suggested the two anti-abortion groups submit them to the Law reform Commission, Jolly added.

The physician said he was disappointed that deputy attorney-general Jack Montgomery, who also attended the meeting, had indicated "it was not up to the government to legislate but a mater for the medical profession."

"It seems to me the A-G's department should be taking the initiative in this sort of thing," said Jolly.

The conference, held at MHSC offices, was arranged by Attorney-General Gerry Mercier after a four-month investigation concluded there was no criminal wrongdoing in the 1973-75 experiments at the Health Sciences Centre.

Decision based on report

Mercier based his decision on an unsigned, five-page Health Sciences Centre report which denied any fetuses were killed by test procedures. The League attacked the report for offering no proof that live fetuses were not used but failed yesterday to get an in-depth government investigation.

Soenen said the League's claim that the report was a whitewash is backed up by a November, 1979, memo from acting deputy health minister Dr. George Johnson to Edwards. The memo shows Johnson urged a limited response to Mercier's request for a report.

In the document, released to reporters yesterday, Johnson said, "I think assurances that proper protocol was followed in the conduct of this research would be a sufficient response."

Desilets said the Health Sciences Centre report maintained only that "as far as they could verify, all the fetuses were dead." But Dr. Arnold Naimark, dean of the medical school, admitted at yesterday's meeting that records verifying this were scanty, she added.

Soenen said the League had interviewed three nurses who worked in the HSC abortion unit when the experiments were under way. One said "she didn't check to see if there were signs of life; she just put the specimen in the basin and taped the basin closed," Soenen claimed.

The League based its original complaint to Mercier on an article in a medical journal which said fetuses ranging from nine to 25 weeks were aborted at the Health Sciences Centre and immediately subjected to heart puncture and removal of glands.

'Wilful misinterpretation'

The anti-abortion groups insist fetuses aborted under the method used are almost always "born alive." The Health Sciences Centre report accused the League of "gross and wilful misinterpretation of public information" and said no "pulsation of the cord or body movement" was noted in any of the fetuses.